I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Athiest at Coe College

[Niles]

03/31/09, Tuesday 7:30 Cherry Auditorium, Coe College  — “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Athiest.” — Norman Geisler

The presentation will be an hour long followed by an hour of open discussion and questions from students, staff, and public.
You can find biography information about Norm at www.normgeisler.com

From his website, his newest book is titled - Atheism is Dead ---God

Background:
The event, held at Coe College, is listed on
Conversation Cafe
http://www.conversationcafecr.org/

Conversation Cafe is provided by the coffee house, Brewed Awakenings
http://www.brewedawakeningscr.com/cafe/index.php/events

Conversation Cafe is a ministry of Noelridge Park Church, Imago Christi at Central Park, and Stonebridge Church. Thanks to Coe College Office of the Chaplain for providing the space on campus.

Brewed Awakenings, is owned by Richard, Nancy, Nate, Amy, Josh and Heather Marsceau; Richard and Nathan are pastors at Noelridge Park Church
http://www.noelridge.org/index.php?page=contact-us

Richard is pastor at
Imago Christi at Central Park
http://www.imagochristicp.org/who-we-are/elders/

Back to the Presentation

From Geisler's website (below)I provide the following quotes:
"Dr. Geisler has been a leader in the defense of the Inerrancy of the Bible and was a founder of the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy..."

and
"He also was a witness in defense of teaching creation along side of evolution in the public schools at the famous "Scopes Two" trial in Little Rock, Arkansas in 1981."   

Read, from the web site.
Dr. Norman Geisler is the author or co-author of some 70 books and hundreds of articles.  He has taught theology, philosophy, and apologetics on the college or graduate level for 50 years.  He has spoken or debated in some 26 countries on six continents. He has a B.A, M.A., Th.B., and Ph.D (in philosophy). He has taught at some of the top Seminaries in the United States, including Trinity Evangelical and Dallas Seminary, and has been guest professor at numerous other schools.  He and his wife Barbara live in the Charlotte, N.C. areas.  He maintains an active writing, speaking, and lecturing ministry across the country.
News Release: Geisler Resigns and Goes To New Seminary

       Cofounder and long-time Dean and President of Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, NC has resigned and taken a position at the newly formed Veritas Evangelical Seminary in Southern California.

       In addition to teaching at both Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and Dallas Theological Seminary, Geisler was the founder and first president of the Evangelical Philosophical Society, a president of the Evangelical Theological Society, and the founder and first president of the International Society of Christian Apologetics.
      Dr. Geisler has been a leader in the defense of the Inerrancy of the Bible and was a founder of the International Council on Biblical Inerrancy which produced the famous “Chicago Statement” (1978) that has been a standard in the field ever since.  He also was a witness in defense of teaching creation along side of evolution in the public schools at the famous “Scopes Two” trial in Little Rock, Arkansas in 1981.   

He and his wife Barbara of 53 years have six children, thirteen grandchildren, and one great grandchild. They live in Charlotte, NC.

[rSchneider]

I have the urge to make up "apologist bingo" cards, similar to the "buzzword bingo" cards mentioned in Dilbert.  Atheism is a religion, evolution is wrong, faith is a virtue, without god there can be no morality, etc.

Actually using the cards during the talk would be rude, but it's fun to think about.

[ScottS]

I have the urge to make up "apologist bingo" cards, similar to the "buzzword bingo" cards mentioned in Dilbert.  Atheism is a religion, evolution is wrong, faith is a virtue, without god there can be no morality, etc.

Actually using the cards during the talk would be rude, but it's fun to think about.

Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

- Scott

[rSchneider]

I had to miss this because of work.  How did it go?  Was anything new or interesting said?

[ScottS]

As I pretty much anticipated, it was fairly insulting to atheists.  The presentation stated that atheists as a group are more prone to mental illness, suicide, etc, always searching to fill that "God-shaped hole" in our hearts... there were a lot of, what I believe Evan put as "correct deductions from incorrect premises" -- Geisler would trot out something that sort of made sense, then would lean heavily on the Transitive Property to then "prove" that God was the only one who could have caused it to be so.  There were a lot of quotes from fiction books by atheists (funny how any character's line from a book turns out to be the true thoughts of the author), and other quotes from atheists-turned-theists.

- Scott

[Niles]

As Scott stated, he used quotes from ex-atheists who "converted."  He did not, of course, use any quotes from former "god people" who became atheists.  Dan Barker of Freedom From Religion Foundation was previously an evangelical minister, and has written TWO books about his transiton - one of those were quoted.

Most interesting to me, was not the words of the presentation, but the event itself.  The Coe auditorium was jam-packed filled.  In fact, before the presentation began, they asked for volunteers to leave - they greatly exceeded fire and safety regulations - people were sitting doubled-up in the aisles.  Sitting around us were people who brought in all the books by the speaker - this was well-attended by true believers.  It was hard to figure out which of the Secularists - or similar-believers, to us - because some of us were sitting together, and others were scattered around wherever they could get seats.  However, a rough estimate might be six hundred of "them" and ten of "us" - which shows us, quite visibly that there is a representation of literalists in Cedar Rapids.  This was sponsored by a combination of a student Christian group, and a minister of TWO churches in Cedar Rapids (who also owns the Brewed Awakenings Coffee House, across the street from Coe), and they came out in full.

A final note.  I was a pharmacist - essentially a biology and chemistry major.  The physics/engineering stuff is beyond my comprehension, but my wife fills that gap - she has a B.S. Physics, and an MS Computer Science, with a minor in EE.  As "they" get into discussions of Creationism, the biology is my game.  However, as you likely know, many of the literalists have also grabbed onto physics - most particularly quantum physics, but also laws of thermodynamics - all to prove that God exists.  At one point in the lecture, my wife just started to laugh uncontrollably - you get the idea.  Unfortunately, the folks in the audience are not sufficiently grounded in either the biological or physical sciences to evaluate this at any level.

There was one such individual in front of me.  I arrived early - I always arrive early at everything - drives my wife nuts.  He believed that Secularists/atheists have no moral grounding.  You are familiar with that issue, and I need not elaborate it.  He was upset that I do not evangelize my atheism - if I hold it TRUE - why would I not want to bring the message to others?  He did want to convince me, however.  His view of evangelism - yup, listen closely - was that he DOES have the ability to enter my house, break down my door, break the law - to bring God's word to me.  Man-created law does not have the force of God's law, and the main thing is to save me against all costs.  Thought you should know.  Keep your door barred.  Further, he believed, since I have no moral grounding of ABSOLUTE TRUTH, I should "welcome" his breaking down my door, because I "do believe" that each of us creates our "own truth" and he should have the ability - thus - to create his own truth.

Serves me right for getting there early.

[ouini]

I think most of the folks who came, and most of us atheists who stayed home, were able to infer the "for entertainment purposes only" disclaimer this speaker should wear.

To decide whether I should show up or not, I looked up Norman Geisler at talkorigins.org. Here's something from talkorigins.org/origins/postmonth/mar06.html :

During his pre-trial deposition, Geisler was asked if he believed in a real Devil. Yes, he replied, he did, and cited some Biblical verses as confirmation. The conversation then went:

"Q. Are there, sir, any other evidences for that belief besides certain passages of Scripture?

GEISLER: Oh, yes. I have known personally at least 12 persons who were clearly possessed by the Devil. And then there are the UFOs.

Q. The UFOs? Why are they relevant to the existence of the Devil?

GEISLER: Well, you see, they represent the Devil's major, in fact, final attack on the earth.

Q. Oh. And sir, may I ask how you know, as you seem to know, that there are UFOs?

GEISLER: I read it in the Readers Digest." (Trial Transcript, US District Court, McLean v Arizona, 1981, cited in Gilkey, 1985, p. 76)

This kind of crazy -- while it can be amusing -- is also very sad, and saps my will to engage in debate or discussion.

[shortbeagles]

Q. The UFOs? Why are they relevant to the existence of the Devil?

GEISLER: Well, you see, they represent the Devil's major, in fact, final attack on the earth.

Q. Oh. And sir, may I ask how you know, as you seem to know, that there are UFOs?

GEISLER: I read it in the Readers Digest." (Trial Transcript, US District Court, McLean v Arizona, 1981, cited in Gilkey, 1985, p. 76)

As a Christian, I have one thought on Geislers' take on UFO's:

"Yeeeeaaaaahhhh.....no"

Besides just being rather silly, as I know the Bible (which leaves much to be desired....),there is nothing about Satan attacking Earth via flying anythings.

[ScottS]

I'm soooooooo wishing I'd done a little more homework beforehand and asked him about the UFOs... 

- Scott